Speaking to YaySweepstakes.com ahead of this weekend’s Super Rugby Final, Crusaders’s James O’Connor revealed his hopes of playing his way into the Australia squad for the upcoming Lions Tour..
O’Connor played for Australia the last time the Lions toured the country, back in 2013, and will play his final game for the Crusaders on the biggest club stage this Saturday. The 34-year-old also spoke about the lessons he’s learned throughout a storied career which has seen him play for clubs in New Zealand, Australia, France and England.
Question: What was the main motivation for leaving the Reds after seven years? Was it more opportunity down in New Zealand or was it scratching and it’s that you wanted to go there?
James O’Connor: I just decided to leave Reds and just have a new experience and look for a new opportunity. The Crusaders didn’t come up for probably a month after I decided I wanted to move somewhere. I’ve been injured for maybe two years on and off. I had been with the Reds for five years, the longest I’d ever been with one club.
I was the oldest in the group and it was more a matter of stepping aside and letting some of the younger players develop. I had seen one or two develop into men and it was their chance to lead the team. I went back and forward a little bit with the Crusaders but when the actual opportunity came up I jumped at it. I wanted to chance my arm with a new group and try a new experience. I had also always wanted the opportunity to play in New Zealand.
I read somewhere that you’re driving around in an RV and your agent phoned and said, hey, James, it’s on. Get down there quick.
JO: Yep, I was in New Zealand in the RV and probably only an hour and a half south of Christchurch I got the call from my agent, so I drove and met Penns (Rob Penney) and Angus (Angus Gardiner). And pretty much from that one meeting, we met for about two or three hours and just talked footy. I met the whole crew. We shook hands and the deal was good – just for this season.
Even in the short time you’ve been there, you’ve learned an awful lot about what makes New Zealand rugby tick and what makes a successful rugby team. Is that correct?
I think I understand why the Crusaders have been so successful. Their style of rugby, their players are obviously very exciting, and it’s been cool learning the way they play, the way they see the game and how they create pressure through territory and just the little differences and nuances between New Zealand rugby and even Crusaders rugby, and Australia.
I have had the pleasure of playing in the UK and France and in some good competitions. They are all very different in terms of how they see the game and how they use the set piece and manipulate things. The Crusaders are a good group of men. Their leadership group is very strong. They’ve got some great seniors and sprinkled with a lot of talent down there. I think the biggest thing is just the culture. It is on another level here. Their heritage and the history and just how much they love rugby.
How does that culture manifest itself? Is it for example, the leaders, you know, making the youngsters aware of what they’re stepping into the value of the shirt or is it history? What is it? What is the essence of it?
I think it starts even before that, it’s the past players. They still have a lot to do with the club. Obviously, there’s been a lot of success over the years. They’re still heavily entrenched in the group. A lot of them still come to training. We know how much the jersey means to them, the way they come together and talk about it. There was a recent Hall of Fame lunch and all the ex players came together. It is more than just a rugby group. It’s like a family. It was clear that for them the greatest time of their lives was being with the Crusaders and how far they went for each other.
There is a big ‘We’ element to it. How can I be the best teammate, instead of how can I be the best player; how can I add value to the group? In a lot of other teams I have played in, the main priority was that you were playing well. The priority is always about the team performing and the team winning.
When you go back to Australia at whatever point that might be, sooner rather than later perhaps, that’s something you will try and instill in whatever team you might become involved in, is that right?
Absolutely. I’ve learnt a lot from even how they interact, how the coaches interact with the players, how game plans are created, how there’s interaction and buy-in from all different groups. I’ve had that in a lot of teams, but it’s just the level of it here. The debates we have. How we review games. We break up into little groups and there are drivers in each area. These guys do a lot more homework in owning areas of the game.
When they come together with the plan and join it with the coaches it’s all very detailed and tailored towards the team that you are playing. And also, it really tailored towards the particular group that we’re picking for that week. Each player brings something unique. So, we definitely work on plenty of our streams.
As you’ve alluded to, you’ve been around the world playing rugby. France, England, Australia, New Zealand. Is that just part of you, that you like a new challenge? Is it wanderlust? What is it?
I think there have been quite a few things. I guess I started so young. I started professional rugby at 17. So, by the time I was sort of six years in, I’d been playing six years of Super Rugby before I made my first move overseas.
I thought I knew everything about the game! I had been playing for the Wallabies for six years. It was a move I needed to grow my game. I wanted to be more consistent against some of the best Northern Hemisphere players. I watched a lot of the Top 14 and a lot of the Premiership and I just really wanted to see how they play the game and how they do it.
How are some of these Northern Hemisphere teams consistently beating us? Or how are they seeing the game to secure some of those tight wins. I got taught a couple lessons pretty early in terms of game management. In Super Rugby you pride your game on individual skills and how you beat players one on one and how to create space firstly for yourself and then for the group. When I came over to the UK playing fullback and some of the sharp kicking games, the manipulation, how they manoeuvred and got backfield space I hadn’t experienced before. Seeing it consistently week in week out in the Premiership was a great learning experience for me.
I can’t believe that half your life you’ve been playing professional rugby. There’s a Lions tour coming up in the summer and is that a target? Is that an ambition?
Of course! I would love to add to my caps even if it’s only a couple more! I would love to be involved in a Lions series in whatever way that might be. I feel like I could add some value whether it is playing against the Lions, or off the bench or just being in the squad. I have been around the block a little bit and I know how a lot of these teams play footy and what they will be focussing on. I have played against a lot of the players coming down to Australia.
A Lions series is something totally different even to a World Cup. The stakes are so high. It comes around every 12 years, two teams, three games.
And what’s the tone of conversations with Joe Schmidt? There have been reports that you’ve had positive conversations and he hasn’t ruled you out. Has he been encouraging in what he’s spoken to you about?
We’ve had some really good conversations. Obviously, the door is open. It’s going to be up to me to perform, especially in Super Rugby. We are in the final! So he said without giving too much away that I’m there or thereabouts. So it’s going to be up to me to consistently keep doing what I’m doing. And then he will make some decisions. But yes we’ve had some great rugby conversations about strategies, what the Lions might bring and what I’ve learned in New Zealand. He is such a switched on guy who definitely gets his footy!
It will probably be a pretty inexperienced Wallaby squad. There is still a great deal of talent, but you could bring something quite special in terms of your experience in this Lions environment having played against them in 2013.
I guess that is possibly what they’re thinking and they’re talking about. I feel like I could add some value in a couple of different areas. I do feel like this squad is definitely more mature than it has been in the past few last three or four years. A lot of guys are around that sort of 40, 50 cap mark now. They have been playing Test rugby for four or five years. They have fine-tuned their craft and their bodies are ready for war. We have so many talented players in the group; the back row, the electric outside backs. It will be exciting to see how much the group can do.
How much would it mean to you to make the Wallaby squad for the Lions? Is there a sense of proving people wrong or just proving that you’ve still got it and that you’ve got something to offer? What is the motivation?
It is not so much about proving people wrong. Everyone is going to have an opinion. There are a lot of talented guys in my position now, some good tens running around. Three years ago, a lot of them were quite green. There has been a lot of growth in that position since the likes of Brendan Foley and Quade Cooper moved on. I feel like I can add value. I’d love to play for my country again and this is the peak, the pinnacle, the highest level of footy you can play. The British Lions are the best of the north so if I feel like I’m still up to it and I am doing the job, this is the one you want.
Twelve years ago you were 23. What did you learn from that experience and how tough can a Lions series be?
I think reflecting on it, I realise I knew a quarter of what I know now in terms of game management. I didn’t learn how to sort of manage a game until I went overseas and learnt a different way of playing rugby in terms of game management. I could kick but there were no nuances in my game in how to create momentum, how to turn teams around, how to put teams into a pocket, how to starve teams of possession. I didn’t understand how to do any of that stuff. I was good at playing the ball at the line, getting myself into a hole. But in terms of team management, I didn’t get to put it all together until I was like 30 and I am still learning.
Was it tough in 2013? You had some pretty shrewd operators against you.
The defenses were really tight. It was all about fine margins. There were a couple of decisions that lost us games. I think the first game was lost by a goal kick. The second game we won but they had a kick to win at the end. In the third game we had all the momentum with 20 minutes to go and then they ended up blowing us off the park after bringing their bench on. I’d imagine they would be doing something pretty similar this time.
Who do you think might be the starting fly half? There’s that young guy Fin Smith in Northampton or there’s Finn Russell obviously the more established player. Do you get a sense of who they might play?
It will be all about combinations. That is the way rugby is these days. Who plays well with who. Who plays that interconnected style? I feel like they will be playing an Irish brand of footy. Tight reloads, loops, hitting nice tight angles, holding the ball. You could easily put Finn Russell in there.
How competitive will the Wallabies be? Because people have been lamenting the state of rugby in Australia and it’s been through all sorts of problems on and off the field. But if a Lions series can’t engender some sort of spark, then nothing will, will it? The Wallabies aren’t going to be happy with a 3-0 defeat.
There’s a lot of interest in it, that’s for sure. I’m feeling it from New Zealand, even over here, talking about it. I know there’s definitely a big buzz in Australia. The boys will be up for it. There will be no lack of effort, I can say that. Seeing how the team has developed in the last two years, I’m pretty sure there’s going to be some detailed game plans. But at the end of the day rugby is a war of attrition. It comes down to who wants it more and who is up for the fight.
In your career, where does a Lions rank? Is it the pinnacle?
Yeah, the Lions are the pinnacle. I have played in two World Cups and they were incredible and awesome experiences. But a Lions series is just about two teams. The amount of Poms who come over is remarkable. Red jerseys everywhere, fans rolling through the city. It’s so cool. They come in swarms, and you can feel the intensity. I just like how vocal the crowd is as well. It’s just loud. I just love the fact that it’s just about two teams and they’re getting to play each other three times. You have to be innovative, have to be able to tweak your game plan and you have to be on the ball because it’s three games in a row against the same opposition.
And it’s so important for Australia in so many other ways isn’t it? The financial gains should help to put Rugby Australia back on its feet.
In terms of participation there’s more people playing Aussie Rules and rugby league. For union fans the Wallabies are the pinnacle. For Aussies to support the rugby union team, the Wallabies need to be doing well. A successful series will be very important.
Who are your main Wallabies competition for fly-half?
Noah Lolesio is the incumbent. He has come back from injury and is a great player. He is right up there. Then you have Ben Donaldson who has been pulling the strings at the Force. He is a very creative player. He is good under the high ball and has a big kicking game.
Then there is Tom Lynagh who comes from pretty good stock. His growth over the last two years has been incredible. Then you’ve got guys like Lawson Creighton at the Waratahs who has had a good season. I think there’s quite a few names that Joe has shortlisted. I guess he’ll review the whole thing, and decide how they think they are going to play against the Lions and what’s going to work. And who’s going to be the right man to run that game plan.
Looking back at your long and some might say colourful career, what would you say to the 21 year old James O’Connor now with the benefit of hindsight? Would you change anything or is it part of your development as an individual, as a human being?
I wouldn’t be where I am today if I hadn’t gone through those lessons. Again, I probably had to learn the hard way a couple of times. But it was just sort of the way I was. You put yourself in that mindset I had back into that time I would probably make the same decision, make the same mistakes!
Definitely, if I could talk to that younger version of myself, I’d give him some wise words and set him straight in terms of what is important in life and what your objectives are and what you actually are trying to achieve. Maybe not chase as much pleasure, maybe focus on rugby a little bit more. As soon as I learned how to communicate my feelings that helped, and just being around good men who loved their rugby and who taught me a lot. As you grow older your priorities change. I still had that young mindset for a long time and it was working for up until it wasn’t!
You talked about the men around you who helped you. Is there anyone in particular?
I’ve had a lot of coaches and players who have helped me along the way. If I possibly listened a little bit more when I was younger, I would have picked up a lot of gems that I was given, especially from coaches and players who imparted knowledge. But I think that was just sort of my character at that stage, I thought I knew best. I was performing at a level, I was doing things that other players weren’t doing yet. I was doing two out of the ten areas of the game very well. I thought that was it. I don’t know what I didn’t know. I opened my eyes a little, not least when I had a couple of ankle injuries, and I couldn’t play the way I used to,
It really made me pull back the curtain and be like, well, and ask myself, ‘How can I get better at rugby? How can I still compete? How can I change my game? How can I improve my game? How can I stay at the top level if I can’t do what I used to be able to do? So, then I had to learn a different way of rugby and really had to study the game and I started loving understanding and learning new ways of playing, Then when my body came back I had a new mind and a new body. I could do things that I had not been able to do.
Regardless of the Lions do want to carry on playing?
I’m having a few conversations with different teams. I’m not sure what’s going to happen next year. A big part of that will be what happens with the Lions. I’m at this stage in my life as well, where I am turning 35, so I don’t know how many more years I have and what are my priorities, what I want to do with my wife, where do we want to live. I’ve been blessed to have been able to travel the world and play good rugby for a lot of good teams. So, it’s not so much just about me anymore in terms of what rugby club I want to go to.
It’s what’s best for my family, and what’s our priorities. I think I definitely want to get into coaching when I finish, so how can I keep collecting knowledge and keep learning so that when I finish, I can add value in that space. In terms of how long I can continue playing; well my body feels good. It’s good coming on as a replacement, it’s easier on the body, but I am not lying I would like to start a couple more games.
That would be a factor and a nice change. My main priority right now is to win the Super Rugby title this week, that would be super cool. The Lions will be my sole focus after that and after that I will be able to sit down and make some decisions and figure out what is best.
Is there a sense it might be time to put down some real roots? I know you’ve had this life going all over the world and loving every minute of it probably, or learning from every aspect of it, but is it time at some stage for Mrs. O’Connor to say, ‘Come on, James’?
Yeah, yeah, 100%. There are the conversations we need to have. Where do we want to finish up? For me, Queensland is home. That’s not saying we’ll definitely move back there straight away. But definitely sort of putting down some roots and seeing what opportunities are out there. Deals used to be for three years, now they’re one year or six months. So, the deals are changing.
I’ll take advice from people who I am close to. One of the gems that I have learned is that we are in a privileged position to get to do what we do and get paid for it. Getting paid to be fit and healthy and be around your mates. What more could you ask for? It is the greatest time of your life. I will keep playing as long as I feel I can add value. I’ve done a couple of coaching courses as well and I’ve got to mentor a couple of teams and coach, like assistant coach at a school and some club rugby so I’ve got my skin in the coaching game, and I genuinely enjoy it. Part of the reason I play now is to enjoy seeing the growth of players around me and impart some knowledge and wisdom.
What do you like to do off the field? What floats your boat?
Nature. I love being in the water, a lake, a river, the ocean, and going out on the boat. I enjoy hiking and a lot of my hobbies are around my dog Apollo. He is a Keeshond from the Netherlands. I’ve got a little property in northern New South Wales in the rain forest. We love going down there, swimming in the streams and just switching off from technology.
No kids yet but that’s another discussion to have. There’s a lot of life to be lived.